The legal side of self defense

Chokehold demonstration

In recent weeks we’ve had two incidents occur on New York subways where an aggressive assailant ended up being killed by someone they were menacing or fighting.

The first incident occurred in May.

Former US Marine Daniel Penny has been indicted for killing Jordan Neely, who reportedly was threatening passengers with violence.

It has been reported that Neely had a long history of arrests and was likely mentally ill.

Penny subdued Neely with a chokehold, but it appears he held the choke too long and Neely died.

The chokehold is a common technique taught to our armed forces.

The latest incident occurred in just the last few days.

Jordan Williams, 20 years old, fatally stabbed Devictor Ouedraogo, after Ouedraogo reportedly had been menacing other passengers on the train and punched Williams’ girlfriend.

Williams has been arrested and appears to have been charged with manslaughter, similar to Neely.

Why both men were charged

Both men were charged because it was THEY who actually escalated to the use of deadly force.

There was another case earlier in the year where an 18 year old was stabbed to death after he and his friends were the aggressors in a subway altercation.

However, in that case, the grand jury refused to indict the man who killed him, believing he acted in self defense.  It looks like the reason for that is because he was outnumbered.

The Williams case is a bit trickier since it was just he and Ouedraogo who were fighting.  But, Williams ended it with use of a deadly weapon.

Penny has been indicted on a manslaughter charge, and I suspect he is going to spend some time behind bars.

His crime is that he used deadly force in the form of a chokehold, where he held it in place for too long.

Self defense in other countries

In many western countries, if you end up killing someone in self defense, there is a good chance you will face jail time.

Consider the case in the UK of the 17 year old boy who stabbed and killed an intruder who attacked him in his own home.  He was sentenced to 3 1/2 years in prison.

Beyond belief.

In the UK, it is illegal to carry any sort of sharp edge weapon in public, and it is also illegal to carry pepper spray or mace.

World renowned combatives instructor Lee Morrison takes this into account, and also employs an understanding of UK laws into his training.

He trains his students to be able to deal with a deadly threat with deadly force, but he also reminds them constantly of the potential legal ramifications.

Since he and several of his senior instructors have experience working as doormen at a bar, Morrison teaches how to subdue a drunk and rowdy individual without the use of deadly force.

In addition to training to deal with violence, Morrison implies that it is just as important to know the level of threat you are faced with.

In most western countries, you cannot escalate to the point where you are using a weapon against an attacker who is empty handed, unless there is a significant size disparity, or a case of multiple assailants.

The issues here in the U.S.

As I see it, the primary issue we have here in the U.S. is we are a bit trigger happy in more ways than just opening fire with a gun.

We see meaningless violence erupt at sporting events and other events quite often.  Unfortunately, in some of these cases, fatalities occur.

The issues on New York’s subways have become worse over the last few years.  We also have a homeless crisis and drug issues that contribute to violence as well.

At the same time, every state has different laws.

Florida is known for its stand your ground laws, while other states frown upon the idea of using guns to as a means of protecting yourself in your own home.

With this in mind, it becomes increasingly important to learn about the laws that govern your own jurisdiction.

Training

I’ve found that most people, when they think of self protection, only think of carrying a firearm.

The problem with this is that 95% of the people who own a firearm for this purpose don’t do any sort of training.

I personally don’t own a firearm because I know that I won’t take the time to train with that weapon do become completely proficient.

I also don’t find myself in situations where mass shootings are likely to break out.  I am self employed, work from home, and don’t go to clubs and other places where these things might occur.

My focus has always been on empty hand training, as situations where that would come into play are more possible for me, although highly unlikely.

With that said, I believe everyone should have a good bit of training, given the amount of violence we now see in this country.

This training should involve both hard and soft skills.  Those soft skills are what will keep you out of a situation altogether.

At the same time, good fighting skills will allow you to end an altercation without the need for deadly force.

This is very important due to the lack of consistency in our legal system.

Thanks for reading!